00:00:00:18 - 00:00:02:20
Dr. Roman Tandlich
Primary and secondary water scarcity, a.
00:00:02:20 - 00:00:07:06
Prof. William Chen
Lot of food loss and food waste. And we see increasing demand for.
00:00:07:06 - 00:00:14:16
Dr. Ashok Swain
Food or the pollution water being used for agriculture, and that also creating problems for agricultural production.
00:00:14:19 - 00:00:34:07
Dr. Roman Tandlich
Might be compromised due to various issues. These might be that can be easily fixed, but the sheer scale of some problems and need to replace the infrastructure makes them sometimes very difficult to manage in almost real time as the need arises or.
00:00:34:09 - 00:00:59:03
Mr. Kyle King
A good morning. Good afternoon or Good evening everyone. My name is Kyle King. I'm the managing director of Capacity Building International, and welcome to our next round table discussion from the Capacity Building International Community of Practice. And we do this every month on various topics that are appealing to the idea of resilience. And so thanks for joining us today as we're going to be talking about innovating for resilience and panel on food and water security.
00:00:59:04 - 00:01:21:13
Mr. Kyle King
Food and water security are fundamental concerns that affect communities worldwide with increasing challenges posed by climate change, population growth and urbanization, the need for innovative solutions to ensure the availability of clean water and nutritious food has become more critical than ever in the face of these pressing issues. Our panel discussion today aims to bring together experts from diverse backgrounds to shed light on sustainable practices.
00:01:21:13 - 00:01:47:15
Mr. Kyle King
Recent innovations, policy implications and actionable steps that individuals and communities can do towards a more food and water secure future. Now, our first panelist today is going to be Professor William Chen, the Michael Fahim Endowed professor and director of Food Science and Technology at Nanyang Technological University, is a leading innovator in food technology, zero food waste processing and food Circular Economy is also the director of Singapore Agri-Food Innovation Lab.
00:01:47:17 - 00:02:09:06
Mr. Kyle King
Sale is the acronym and the scientific director of Singapore Future Ready Food Safety Hub, or otherwise known as Fresh as the acronym. Our second panelist is Dr. Roman Tandlich from the team's Regional Director for Africa and Associate Professor at the Faculty of Pharmacy at Rhodes University in South Africa. Dr. Tandlichā€™s background in biotechnology led him to develop low cost and decentralized sanitation technologies.
00:02:09:08 - 00:02:34:10
Mr. Kyle King
He then shifted his focus to disaster management to address water, sanitation and hygiene challenges in developing countries and developed new teaching and research tools for public health, disaster risk reduction and development. And our third panelist is Dr. Ashok Swain, a professor from and head of Department for the Department of Peace and Conflict Research. He is the UNESCO's Chair on International Water Cooperation and the director of Research School of International Water Cooperation at Uppsala University.
00:02:34:10 - 00:02:54:16
Mr. Kyle King
He is also the founding editor in chief of Environment and Security Journal, jointly published by Sage Publishing and Environmental Peace Building Association. And as your moderator today, Kyle King is already mentioned the founder and managing director of Capacity International. I'll be facilitating the discussion and without further ado, let's jump right into the topics that will be addressing today.
00:02:54:18 - 00:03:24:24
Mr. Kyle King
So first we have of course, the first topic is on circular economy and waste reduction. Now, in terms of the circular economy and waste reduction, obviously the circular Economy principles offer a transformative approach to address the challenges of food security and create a more sustainable future. Innovative approaches, policies and technologies are explored to address these challenges and this discussion and what we're gonna hear from our panelists today really encourages experts to explore the circular economy strategies for addressing waste reduction and promoting sustainable resource management.
00:03:24:24 - 00:03:35:04
Mr. Kyle King
So in this topic of circular economy and waste reduction, I'll first turn it over to Professor Chin to provide some insight from a food security perspective. Professor Chin, over to you.
00:03:35:06 - 00:04:01:12
Prof. William Chen
Hi, good morning and good evening, everyone. It's an honor to be here. Thanks for the kind of invitation also in. Let to start with some brief summary of what we have been doing in Singapore. As you know, Singapore is a small city state, importing more than 90% of the food to 470 countries. And so in peacetime, this food import has been pretty small.
00:04:01:14 - 00:04:27:24
Prof. William Chen
But now with external changes in a standard environment, like, for example, global warming, COVID 19 pandemic, and also the war in Ukraine, these have made use of supply chain and food security very volatile. And so if we look at the traditional we are producing food, we typically see a linear way of this, the food supply chain and the food value chain.
00:04:27:24 - 00:04:46:03
Prof. William Chen
And this has certain drawbacks. First is that people will you say low farmers need only do whatever they are good at and in the supply chain you just move the food along and so that no one talk to each other. And then there's a lot of in the process in general, a lot of food lost and food waste.
00:04:46:09 - 00:05:26:13
Prof. William Chen
And we say increasing demand for food. And also in addition to the changes in the number, I'm no worse, I have worse. I have this growing population. We demand more food. So all this make this a linear food economy model not sustainable. So what we do is actually to sort of develop simple innovation to improve the current food system and in the process to create a food economic wise, the food economy important, because if we can reduce food waste and food loss to a large extent, that actually you put a lot less pressure on the on the food production level.
00:05:26:13 - 00:05:50:03
Prof. William Chen
In fact, as estimated by Food and Agriculture Organization, even globally, we could reduce food waste and food lost to zero. There's actually no need to worry too much about the demand for food. So therefore these like importers, are impelled. We don't reduce our food waste. So I think roughly is I mean, briefly explain a similar innovation we have developed in Singapore.
00:05:50:05 - 00:06:13:23
Prof. William Chen
It's not just for Singapore. I think some of these urban solutions and physical economy model can be sort of a share with other countries, other megacities, because increasingly a lot of people will be actually moving to the urban area to to sort of aspire for a better life. So urban solution may be a very important option for the future of food system.
00:06:14:00 - 00:06:21:06
Mr. Kyle King
Thank you, Professor Chan. So, Dr. Swain, what are your thoughts on circular economy waste reduction from your field in terms of water security?
00:06:21:08 - 00:06:54:08
Dr. Ashok Swain
I think we need to. I'm more interested in the water issues of course, Are water and food very closely related. And food is the directly affects the security in many ways. On lesser outbursts, huge water scarcity. I think proposals generally described in Singapore's water issue a food issue. But I was 20 years back advising Singapore government. When Singapore government was with the Malaysia, the water issue came up, came up and that is the time.
00:06:54:10 - 00:07:30:06
Dr. Ashok Swain
How the circular economy, also the water import and export works and that at the time also Singapore locked in the new water which was quite a massive revolution. How you can really change the wastewater to drinking water and the Prime minister then Singapore Prime minister bringing it. I mean, of course, you know, that was the time. But now I think we need to realize there is a big difference exists between the developed country or country, which is like Singapore with the technology and the huge resources.
00:07:30:11 - 00:07:52:05
Dr. Ashok Swain
And you know, that they can really if they do have money and technology and we says they can change the polluted water like I live in Sweden. Sweden used to have also the huge water pollution in the river system because of the paper and pulp industry. The paper and pulp industry production has increased 6 to 7 times more.
00:07:52:10 - 00:08:20:12
Dr. Ashok Swain
But you will see the pollution has decreased almost zero now. So how this can be? So that's some things which is you see in the developed industrialized countries to develop the resources and willingness to invest in it. Whereas the problem comes in the developing countries where the water has been extremely polluted, most of the pollution, water being used for agriculture, and that also creating problems for agricultural production.
00:08:20:16 - 00:08:37:16
Dr. Ashok Swain
In many cases the water is not even sourced good enough to produce agricultural products and that is of course we can talk about whether will have resources, although to have a technology to go for it, all of the how they can be assisted, that is all sort of forensic debate even if you have a willingness or not like that, for example.
00:08:37:16 - 00:09:09:09
Dr. Ashok Swain
I mean, though Israel has a huge technological development. How to really better use the water for agricultural purposes. I'm not getting into the Israeli water because that's another issue. We are not getting discussed that. But nobody can deny that Israel has got massive progress in using the water in a much more smarter way upon agriculture. And that can be if you agree, Israel can do in that kind of climate, that kind of places and can be agricultural powerhouse.
00:09:09:15 - 00:09:29:18
Dr. Ashok Swain
Why not all of those? So I think it's a it's a somehow we need to see whether the priority is there or not. So it's a political priority is extremely important. And I think to get this more both in the developed countries and developing countries, but the developing countries is much more because you need to really allocate resources.
00:09:29:18 - 00:09:52:15
Dr. Ashok Swain
You need to put a number of political capital behind it. I keep on saying we do have science, we do have knowledge, we do have economy, but it's the lack of political will which is really making this kind of priority arrangement. What are you don't. But we also see that there are certain other challenges which the developing countries can address.
00:09:52:20 - 00:10:24:01
Dr. Ashok Swain
But unless we do that, unless you need to master the, you know, possibilities to be use the water in a better way for agriculture to all industrial to other purposes called municipal purposes, the water is going to risk to discuss the water scarcity is not something happening to it in the future. It is there. So we need to see the change of mindset and the water is not coming from the it's not but God's gift, God's gift to do everything.
00:10:24:03 - 00:10:39:19
Dr. Ashok Swain
So it's not only water, but God's gift. So it depends what kind of how much really we are prepared to put our resources and also tell the people that what it's all for and how we really need to find a way to better manage it.
00:10:39:21 - 00:10:58:09
Mr. Kyle King
So I think that the Israel case is a very interesting example. I mean, Dr. Taylor is coming over to you and looking at that from a developing country perspective. Obviously, there is more developed nations. They have resources they can apply to some of these issues. What about in terms of developing nations that you've been working in? What are you seeing from your perspective?
00:10:58:11 - 00:11:24:17
Dr. Roman Tandlich
So I really like what was just said about the change in mindset. We are really seeing that in the southern hemisphere, specifically on the African continent. South Africa has had quite a few changes in the climate, not so, not so much when it comes to overall climate itself, but on the precipitation, for example, since about 2015, we've had persistent droughts.
00:11:24:19 - 00:12:02:05
Dr. Roman Tandlich
South Africa and Southern Africa is not the only place California was also in a drought for quite a long time. What do we have actually seen is that the drought itself has become a permanent state of affairs and it seems that we are actually not talking about droughts anymore. We actually starting to talk about our edification and this has major impacts on primary and secondary water scarcity, primary being caused by the climate and the amount of oxidation you get in the secondary by the fact that many times the delivery of that water and its treatment to the population and to various sectors of economy like food production, might be compromised due to various issues.
00:12:02:07 - 00:12:33:21
Dr. Roman Tandlich
These might be the outdated or aging infrastructure, bursts of pipes, very basic things that can be easily fixed. But the sheer scale of some problems and need to replace the infrastructure makes them sometimes very difficult to manage in almost real time as the need arises and fire breaks occur. On the other hand, what we have seen in South Africa has been we've had two cities now come very close to what we call a day zero, where the supply of the drinking water would have simply run out because there was not enough water coming into the system.
00:12:33:21 - 00:13:00:12
Dr. Roman Tandlich
Cape Town is a very good and very well known case which happened in 2018. They have managed to avoid it by the sheer last luck and precipitation coming in. We are currently seeing something similar on the Indian Ocean coast in a place called Baco or the Elizabeth, where the it is very likely that day zero, the scale of a city of about one 1.5 million people is likely to occur sometime later this winter.
00:13:00:17 - 00:13:25:08
Dr. Roman Tandlich
We are also seeing something similar happening, for example, in Mexico, in Monterrey. This was seen last year. So what we are seeing, for example, in in the country that I'm based in is that rerouting of drinking water, zero water resources is underway. We have piping, for example, what you would maybe see for natural gas or oil in EU and north northern hemisphere.
00:13:25:10 - 00:14:05:16
Dr. Roman Tandlich
You starting to see something similar happen for water resources where areas that have water use the sources to divert certain volumes towards areas that are scarce. And specifically, if you look at the southern southeastern part of southern Africa and South Africa specifically, this is a very agricultural area. Citrus fruit is grown here. And if it wasn't for supplies from central parts of the south, South Africa and also parts of the northern parts of the country, such as Johannesburg, which is one of our major metropolitan areas, a lot of the water that they get is basically done through transfer schemes from the kingdom of LSU troops.
00:14:05:16 - 00:14:33:19
Dr. Roman Tandlich
I think this is going to be a very more and more like a feature of water supply management treatment and also food production that we will see with climate change. A lot of precipitation coming in small and very drastic events, floods, downpours where 24 hours you would see one year's worth of precipitation. We're going to have to find a way to store that water treated and then diverted into areas that otherwise don't get right.
00:14:33:21 - 00:14:44:00
Dr. Roman Tandlich
And I think that's going to be something that will have to become a very important part of water, food and also disaster risk management in the 21st century. Thanks.
00:14:44:00 - 00:15:08:02
Mr. Kyle King
Thanks. Really appreciate that. So that actually brings us into our next question, really, which is about sustainable water management. Of course, the challenges with water scarcity, just like you were talking about, Dr. Jane. Let's say, you know, degradation either depart due to population, urbanization, climate change or call for sustainable practices. Now innovative approaches like what? What are we seeing in terms of innovative approaches, policies and technologies that explore to address these challenges?
00:15:08:02 - 00:15:30:07
Mr. Kyle King
I know, Dr. Swain, you had mentioned that in Sweden production has gone up by 6 to 7 times. But actual waste has been stayed the same as in previous periods. So that is quite interesting to explore. And of course, the goal should encompass, you know, equitable distribution, efficient utilization as we talk about getting more arid lands and territories, resulting in resilient safeguards of ecosystems and meeting future needs.
00:15:30:07 - 00:15:45:11
Mr. Kyle King
I think all of these topics, we sort of just just you know, touched on in our first sort of round. But Professor Jane, I'll bring you back over to you. In terms of sustainable water management, obviously your focus is on food security, but what are you seeing in terms of sustainable water management.
00:15:45:13 - 00:15:47:24
Prof. William Chen
Led to this swing staffers?
00:15:48:01 - 00:15:49:16
Mr. Kyle King
Can you? Sure can, yeah.
00:15:49:18 - 00:16:23:21
Dr. Ashok Swain
Thank you both. Sustainable water management is something which is again, the number of things involved. As I said, we do have in ways that what sort of water we are looking at it and then whether it is sustainable managed to or not been. We can really think up like I was giving example of Israel or in Israel. If you look at the water is a big man is of course what Israel has that water is a managed well but where the bread how but Israel gets these water that's another question.
00:16:23:22 - 00:16:49:22
Dr. Ashok Swain
So I think it all depends because as you know, there have been a lot of well, I mean, we are only using 2 to 3% of water, which is also a distressed water. And we are talking about the first water, most of the cases and most of the first water also internationally said I'm in the 30% to 42% of fresh water where you would think that comes from the international forces into lots of people.
00:16:49:22 - 00:17:14:17
Dr. Ashok Swain
So we don't want it. And those are both things, of course, that have been different agreements. But border agreements are not always in the you know, I know very rare cases, particularly in Europe. You will find there are some kind of all the basin countries are part of it because it has been often being run by the powerful countries on the upstream business are in control of it and that is going on.
00:17:14:17 - 00:17:42:05
Dr. Ashok Swain
So I think it's a is the cross-boundary water and the plus one regarding groundwater, we must also realize that the transboundary groundwater is not exactly out of being, which is the major source of water supply. And because it's a below the ground, you don't see it. Yes. To less being discussed, to less being agreed up on the how the country will see it out of the thousands of vulnerable groundwater.
00:17:42:05 - 00:18:04:05
Dr. Ashok Swain
Well, they all posix agreement exist. There are no agreements also. So I think in that sense we have to look at what kind of water we are talking about and what kind of economy these waters are. And guess to all what waters are used for. Like we of course there have been, well, stability of desalinate using water, the desalination of water.
00:18:04:07 - 00:18:33:08
Dr. Ashok Swain
Before I go for the desalination, the water proposition tangling. What's talking about getting the water from the South Africa, from the pipe sources. I think this plants are there from the Zambezi River. Zambezi adequate plan which is there, which is South Africa, is not even the part of the basin to divert this water. We have this, I mean, with the pipelines and this kind of grand pipelines, ideas are all over the world, or because of the political regions, they have not been implemented.
00:18:33:12 - 00:18:53:14
Dr. Ashok Swain
But within the basin there has been a lot of cross-border taking place. And I would also explaining the Malaysia water to Singapore or mainland China to Hong Kong. So you brought up many of these explanations and then we are talking about the saline water or the how desalinated this will be. And the desalination is something to which we can watch.
00:18:53:15 - 00:19:20:01
Dr. Ashok Swain
It is being used for if it is only for the industrial Caucasus and one is bottled water purposes and the countries are like the Middle East or before the United States or part of Southern Europe possibly did. Okay, But that also creates other problems. So I think when we are talking about sustainable water management, we must figure out which water we are talking about, which economy we are looking at, what sort of you would it is.
00:19:20:06 - 00:19:48:09
Dr. Ashok Swain
But products for this discussion, it's more on the food production, isn't it? So the food production issue is also highly securitized. Like take for example, Saudi Arrow 20 years back, once extracting water in the middle of the desert and producing wheat, which are well backed by $2 billion spending because extracting the water from underground and producing wheat, which they could buy the price, the amount of wheat from the international market.
00:19:48:11 - 00:20:17:16
Dr. Ashok Swain
But this is again, a kind of national press. And that's not all, you know, modest food security idea. So I bet. So I think what we are doing, I mean, I'm giving a long because I think it's a much more complicated things. But what is happening actually that our water, wherever our water is not geographical boundaries, creating a problem or having a sustainable water management for food production, the places where the water is available.
00:20:17:16 - 00:20:39:09
Dr. Ashok Swain
We have agricultural land where you are supposed to produce for isn't dead. That's what you can do it and then we can really. But those kind of ideas are coming. I will finally I will talk about the Nile. When the Nile River has become a major issue of contents on the Egypt, which is producing its agriculture with the Nile water.
00:20:39:10 - 00:21:04:14
Dr. Ashok Swain
Nile Egypt is depend on 90% of the Nile water, but most of the water for agricultural purposes and producing wheat, all the producing all the agricultural production in the middle of the desert, isn't it? So the best thing would be probably to do this in Sudan or Ethiopia. And then you can buy that even though agricultural products. But that is not that is a not trust that this country will produce agricultural report and give to Egypt.
00:21:04:20 - 00:21:25:10
Dr. Ashok Swain
So I think it's the real problem. Age. We are lacking vision and local and also international trust factor where we should produce. We are not exactly using food production for the water where it's supposed to be the best possible production of the food going to be given the water and or, you know, climate and the land is available.
00:21:25:12 - 00:21:41:07
Dr. Ashok Swain
And I think once we realize that probably that is a lot of problems but it out slightly for not giving you a very simple, straightforward answer but it is a quite complex. And when you are talking all the water, we are not medicine which water we are talking about.
00:21:41:09 - 00:22:07:07
Mr. Kyle King
No, absolutely. I think that's a it's actually a very good answer. Highlights a lot of issues in terms of the actual and there's an aspect of political sustainability. Right. And so there's an aspect of, you know, the an international agreement, as you're mentioning, national agreements and that trust that has to take place. And it also comes back to the first topic we were talking about, which is political investment, you know, political ownership, and then investing in these sorts of technologies to be able to enhance food and water security.
00:22:07:09 - 00:22:13:00
Mr. Kyle King
But Dr. Dennis Roman, I'll come back over to you for some additional input on this topic of sustainable water management.
00:22:13:06 - 00:22:51:20
Dr. Roman Tandlich
So I really like what you just said because it does highlight one important issue, and that is that the water cycle is interconnected with a lot of other national, regional and international issues that we're dealing with. And ultimately what we what we have to realize is that the water cycle itself is being extensively studied. We know that there is a lot of work going on in understanding, for example, interaction between surface and groundwater so that you can balance the resource, the extraction of the volumes of water in a particular area without impeding or negatively impacting the hydrological cycle, meaning that you don't extract too much water and then damage the system in the long term.
00:22:51:20 - 00:23:21:12
Dr. Roman Tandlich
What I think is also becoming more and more important to realize is that the water, food and energy nexus are connected and water cycle and food production are intertwined in a way that prioritizes zation or allocation of water to different uses. For example, industry, human consumption, food production and so on must be carefully balanced so that we assign water as a critical resource to human survival based on principles of justice.
00:23:21:12 - 00:23:46:07
Dr. Roman Tandlich
And I think this was already alluded to by the previous speaker, meaning that people and the growing population of the Earth must be equitably given access to water, food and other essential resources. But at the same time, we must strike a balance that all the sectors taken into consideration when making these allocations. Nile River is a really good example of this, and I really like that it was mentioned.
00:23:46:09 - 00:24:25:17
Dr. Roman Tandlich
We also on the other side need to, for example, increase resilience at the very basic level, which means household and individual citizens where we can, for example, encourage more water efficient practices in food production, for example, there is a lot of movement now in some scientific literature towards working on closed systems where you would have something like aquaculture at the household level, where a food garden and a small fish farm, we can say allocated to a household is a closed system which requires a certain amount of certain volume of water.
00:24:25:19 - 00:24:52:23
Dr. Roman Tandlich
But at the same time that system is closed and once it's up and running, it can increase the security of water and food supply for that. Also, there are many other initiatives that that are quite encouraging. A lot of countries are encouraging. For example, greywater, recycling, where water from the domestic wastewater without any input from toilets is actually reused in non-essential services, all uses where drinking water would otherwise be used.
00:24:52:23 - 00:25:24:15
Dr. Roman Tandlich
For example, garden irrigation and flushing of toilets, things like that. So these are balance between these international and small scale initiatives, I think important. And they also apparently point towards a very transdisciplinary nature of which means many points of view and many kind of data and inputs must be put on the table when making decisions about water allocations and food so that we achieve just exploitation and usage of these resources.
00:25:24:15 - 00:25:25:12
Dr. Roman Tandlich
Thank you.
00:25:25:14 - 00:25:27:20
Mr. Kyle King
Thanks for that. And Professor and anything.
00:25:27:20 - 00:25:28:07
Dr. Roman Tandlich
That the.
00:25:28:07 - 00:26:03:15
Prof. William Chen
Two previous speakers already mentioned eloquently the importance of better utilizing water. I just wanted to add on that actually all these current crises in changing environment actually force people to think more deeply. So to look for solutions. One example is that as I mentioned earlier, the traditional way of farming this like the sea, we are using water, using fertilizer and not just just I mentioned a lot of food with our food laws in in in the traditional way of farming.
00:26:03:15 - 00:26:43:16
Prof. William Chen
But equally true, this will water. So you know, people don't really care about how much water these per declared industry stymieing. For example irrigate the farm and increasingly do not optimal because agriculture and food production actually use a lot of what we would when we think about globally. There's only about 1% of freshwater available for the entire population, not just for food production, but also equally important for our own need to this very critical to sort of monitor the water usage and understand the need when to want to use water, when not to.
00:26:43:16 - 00:27:10:24
Prof. William Chen
And as for this, I am really happy to see that the food system actually is is so comprehensive it can be very well integrated into a technology adoption. So in this case are a lot of social development have been put in place to monitor the need for water use and so on. So these are one example. We see that when we deploy the technology sensibly, actually we can achieve a much greater efficiency.
00:27:11:00 - 00:27:36:20
Prof. William Chen
And to to follow on the twist, because the suggestion I would say that when we have a limited amount of fresh water for for the entire world to use for food, for human consumption, it maybe is also time to think of think out of the box, look into sea water, because we are so I mean, even we talk about the surface area, I mean, the ocean, okay, so much more.
00:27:36:24 - 00:27:55:08
Prof. William Chen
And that this is a huge reservoir for us with pad. Well, I'm not just talking about desalination, but also kind of promoting some of the new ideas or produce a food on the high seas. So I think these would actually help us achieve a better and more efficient food system years to come. Okay.
00:27:55:08 - 00:28:15:20
Mr. Kyle King
Very interesting. I have actually not heard of that. Producing food on the high seas, so there should be quite an interesting topic to explore at a later date and we could certainly do that. But that actually brings us over to the next question, which is since we do have a scarcity of water, then what is really about the innovative water treatment and purification and sort of what are the innovations here that we're looking at that can help our societies with water security?
00:28:15:20 - 00:28:45:06
Mr. Kyle King
So, I mean, access to clean water and safe water is vital for human health, sustainable development and environmental well-being. The need for innovative water treatment solution arises from challenges like pollution. I mean, there's been a number of cases, even in the United States, in terms of water pollution. You know, we can most famously sort of Flint, Michigan, and other areas that have had sort of water issues in recent years and challenges such as emerging contaminants, limited freshwater resources that we were just mentioning and ensuring access and maintenance of clean water.
00:28:45:06 - 00:29:08:22
Mr. Kyle King
So what can we discuss here about some of the groundbreaking technologies or revolutionary revolutionary sort of efforts that are being undertaken in terms of water quality approaches and and how can we identify new strategies to ensure that there's global access and preservation of clean water? So. Dr.. And I think we'll come back to you as the one of our resident water experts, and then you can kick off this part of the conversation.
00:29:08:22 - 00:29:28:14
Dr. Ashok Swain
I think one of the has moved quite ahead in providing I mean, we must admit that that I've been like you are talking about the United States and Flint, Michigan, but that I've been I have been before to California or New Orleans. You can drink the water from the tap now. At least you could bring the water from the tap.
00:29:28:19 - 00:29:56:06
Dr. Ashok Swain
And I could even survive living so long in Sweden and doing that water. But that woman, things have changed many countries. You will see that even in Germany when in the early nineties you couldn't drink the water from the tap. But now anywhere you can, you know, so there has been some dangers. But of course we have the huge problem of providing safe, clean water to people and that is creating a major health crisis.
00:29:56:08 - 00:30:15:12
Dr. Ashok Swain
Besides all the things I'm in, I'm in the department, which is why we spend most of our collecting data on how many people die in the war. Okay. Orinoco made it very well on civil wars, and I'm the one to do research on the water, so I need to put myself in this water disasters that I'm going to low rent.
00:30:15:15 - 00:30:34:00
Dr. Ashok Swain
I used to put on my door that how many people die every year because of the drinking bad water? So, you know, so of course, now people know that that's a bad water, something which is kills so many people. So I don't need to put that on my door. But I think it it's a fact it goes on.
00:30:34:02 - 00:30:52:18
Dr. Ashok Swain
But I think it's also there have been a number of way the technology out there that are possibilities if the but there is a corruption that is about lack of it. Again though it must still that there is a lack of political will, that this is not that the water cannot be given and the water cannot be clean, water cannot be given.
00:30:52:20 - 00:31:18:16
Dr. Ashok Swain
There are legal challenges like in some places, even the urban slums where people want to buy water, but the states are not interested. So give them the piped water because that will give them the legal rights of staying that or somehow they can say that they have been taking. It's a much more complex problem. I mean, it might look quite easy, but be it in the unmanaged, less so sort of way.
00:31:18:17 - 00:31:39:24
Dr. Ashok Swain
But the one man as the urban centers, sort of even the rural area, which are not exactly you can easily access, there is an energy problem. So you probably will face this kind of how to really provide the clean water, but that should be one of the it is called the basic human rights for the people to have the clean water and proper sanitation.
00:31:40:05 - 00:32:04:02
Dr. Ashok Swain
It's the states responsibility. It's a Norway, a state can say that this is the business. How does it do it? This is the Indians want to do it for the people will happen. But the state's basic responsibility is to provide the clean water and proper sanitation possibilities to everyone. That's the basic human rights. And if the state propels to provide that, then I think the problem starts from there.
00:32:04:07 - 00:32:21:18
Dr. Ashok Swain
The others can play the supporting role, but I think where the states are really even the developed countries, I'm not playing to Michigan. I mean, and there are not only one Flint. I mean, you will find that in many areas in the United States, in Canada, in some parts in Europe, also, you won't be able to get those water.
00:32:21:18 - 00:32:50:07
Dr. Ashok Swain
And I think here there is a no explanation because it's just the state has frozen in the developing countries. It has not been given the priority. So I think it should be prioritized. But I think we do have the technology, we do have the possibilities to provide very safe water to people. But I think it's corruption, legal problems and politics, which are the three things which I think is not it's not the science, it's not the result, which is the problem.
00:32:50:08 - 00:33:18:00
Mr. Kyle King
And I think so I think that's very interesting. I mean, you can draw and I like the way you sort of provide that perspective in developed nations. It's a choice and other underdeveloped nations. It's an issue of being provide the tools and the capabilities to to make that choice. And so I like the way that that's phrased is it's a conscious decision to invest or not invest with more developed nations and, you know, take actions to make sure that you're fulfilling your responsibility as a state to your population.
00:33:18:02 - 00:33:24:03
Mr. Kyle King
So, Robyn, let's come back over to you for your perspective on water treatment and prefabrication and innovation in this area.
00:33:24:06 - 00:33:50:17
Dr. Roman Tandlich
Thank you. I, I really agree with everything that was just said. The political will and the corruption are a major problem. The other issue is that the the movement and migration of populations is becoming intertwined with access to resources, that the effective way of managing it is sometimes quite difficult to predict how we are going to manage the supply of drinkable water, for example, building a reticulation system and supply to an area.
00:33:50:17 - 00:34:16:18
Dr. Roman Tandlich
If there is a lot, especially on the border, between or the boundary between ROULER and urban areas, because most of our economic opportunities allow in the urban area. So the migration is only increasing from rural to urban areas and many times this is quite difficult to manage over time, especially on a short space of time. And this complicates the supply of basic services like water and sanitation.
00:34:16:20 - 00:34:50:19
Dr. Roman Tandlich
The other angle, which I would stress is quite important in this aspect, is that indigenous knowledge, which is held by people that have traditionally resided, for example, in rural areas, is becoming more significant than before, I think because effective management of water resources, optimization of farming techniques that have been developed over extended and long periods of time are gaining more and more momentum because they can provide some solutions to the challenges and allocation of resources like water that we see.
00:34:50:21 - 00:35:28:12
Dr. Roman Tandlich
The other point I would like to make is that research is driven immensely on the areas of nanotechnology and treatment of water, using that that covers removal of microorganisms, emerging contaminants in others, but also what is changing in the research area, which is quite exciting and actually quite empowering, is that many times scientists and the communities that are not impacted but that requires solutions for provision of water and food are working more and more collaboratively to provide solutions to these.
00:35:28:12 - 00:35:56:15
Dr. Roman Tandlich
For example, to how much water to allocate for human consumption, to food production and how much to allocate to natural resources. For example, many times communities are becoming custodians of wetlands and catchments and they extract their water from because these provide essential services to them, for example, resources from forests that are inside the catchments that can provide raw materials for economic activity.
00:35:56:15 - 00:36:21:08
Dr. Roman Tandlich
The community derives their income from. That is partnerships between scientists, governments and communities around what we now call ecological services. That the ecosystem provides to the community are becoming more and more where the community becomes a custodian and manager with support by the government and scientists. And that way the resource such as forests, catchments and so on can be optimized.
00:36:21:08 - 00:36:26:12
Dr. Roman Tandlich
So all the needs of the environment and also the human population living that can be met.
00:36:26:15 - 00:36:51:19
Mr. Kyle King
Thank you very much and good insights there. And so Professor Cheney, come back to you in terms of innovations in water treatment and purification, what is sort of the impact in food and the food industry and food security itself, if we can get obviously there's a correlation here in some form or fashion, that the more that we're able to more efficiently process water and treat water and purify water, the more will I would reuse it and then bring that over to the food sector and things like that.
00:36:51:21 - 00:36:57:04
Mr. Kyle King
So what is the impact here that you're seeing? And is there anything on your radar in terms of food security?
00:36:57:06 - 00:37:27:07
Prof. William Chen
Well, the two gentlemen have pointed out to be significant investment in the technology, how to sort of maximize the allocation utilizes it, but it's just now so sort of a little bit concern about the cost of energy. You know, all these technologies can be very energy demanding. And I would say that the proper allocation is, as one of the panelists pointed out, maybe the couple.
00:37:27:09 - 00:37:55:15
Prof. William Chen
We carefully use the available water resources that will be the key moving forward. I think in terms of food production, there are a lot of different sized, you know, things as we discussed earlier. Also, maybe some of the urban solutions can be a explore to sort of see how we can develop urban farming that utilize less water. So I think, you know, efficiency or using water will be the key if they can really fully deliver.
00:37:55:17 - 00:38:09:10
Prof. William Chen
Assuring food production, probably. And then there's a just now I have also a citation on the production food on the ice sheet. So that's another possibility. And not no mission impossible, but it is doable. Yeah, but we'll see. Yeah.
00:38:09:12 - 00:38:34:09
Dr. Ashok Swain
But also there has been a low please. But I think there is a lot of technological development how to use the semis alone water. I mean when I was growing up close to the Bay of Bengal, my grandfather was in that time rowing. You're right with the Bay of Bengal. Summary saline water. And that disappeared with the new It's a wonderful, high yielding variety was raised coming in.
00:38:34:11 - 00:38:45:00
Dr. Ashok Swain
But now I think those kind of world policing rice and other populations which used to be on the same saline water can be also being developed. Is that correct?
00:38:45:03 - 00:39:06:14
Prof. William Chen
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think this is where the technology implementation and adoption come to come into the picture. Again, here we talk about how to modify the plant and the crops to adapt to different water conditions. Well, we're not talking about GM food policy in terms of what we to eat, but how the plant the crops grow in a different way.
00:39:06:14 - 00:39:12:01
Prof. William Chen
Take a decent this actually a very important area that is coming along to get things.
00:39:12:05 - 00:39:36:03
Dr. Roman Tandlich
Yeah I really like the last comment. There is a lot of one of the main drivers of our understanding about how to adapt to climate change and its it's in more broadly and specifically with water and food production will be that a lot of the plants that are considered critical to an ecosystem or food chain, there's a lot of investment going into genetic analysis, sequencing and understanding.
00:39:36:03 - 00:39:58:10
Dr. Roman Tandlich
What are the factors that control the survival and the adaptability of specifically staple food crops such as maybe wheat, rice and things like that are going on. There's a lot of government investment and a lot of capacities being built pretty much across the world in sequencing and genomic analysis, which can then allow us to improve food production systems.
00:39:58:10 - 00:40:17:01
Mr. Kyle King
As well, make sure that Roman and that conversation just strikes me and makes me remember that, you know, what is old is new again. And then maybe with the current technology we have now, we can better understand why the old systems worked and then adapt to a new environment. So very interesting discussion. So we're heading up into almost a full hour now.
00:40:17:01 - 00:40:45:06
Mr. Kyle King
So I just want to have it over to the Q&A really quick. And we do have a couple of questions that have come in. And the first one is, I think really just about public education resources and outreach initiatives. So for people that are like in the United States, a very sort of large country and maybe water security is not the dominant factor and there are sort of daily news, what publication or what public education outreach initiatives are recommended to find out more information about water scarcity, water security, food security.
00:40:45:08 - 00:40:51:08
Mr. Kyle King
And and in the public domain, there are many, many good resources there. Dr. Swain, we'll start with you.
00:40:51:10 - 00:41:18:06
Dr. Ashok Swain
I think that has been I might also I might underscore, Chair and my job is also to spread this education and or list on that. But the the kind of thing like, like a country like in Sweden, I never started here, but my kids went to the school. This country doesn't need to think about this point of time where the water preservation but they will see the education system.
00:41:18:08 - 00:41:43:20
Dr. Ashok Swain
My kids come home and tell me how to use the water table. I have a I'm telling the world how to use water. They I've been learning from the school system that how to build I use the water well and sustainably so boats get educations are need to be put in the curriculum which I mean the region school recommendation about how the school should be using all the education system but we don't prioritize.
00:41:43:22 - 00:42:04:17
Dr. Ashok Swain
There was a time I think it's also people, those who are interested in this. We should also take it as a mission, but we must try to put this knowledge in the young mind as much as you can do. Then, because of the power in the universities and we are much more interested in doing research or, you know, but more research publications.
00:42:04:21 - 00:42:36:18
Dr. Ashok Swain
But I think that real education should be in the school level. In my younger days, I was going around different schools in Swedish, Sweden, being a project supported by the Green Cross, you know, Gorbachev money, which is there are Nobel Prizes. He put that in the green course that was actually supporting and I was going around in the different schools to in the Swedish schools to also teach the students that how the water is important, the importance of water, and how the one important for our society, for our life, for our food and everything.
00:42:36:18 - 00:43:13:08
Dr. Ashok Swain
And that because I think, you know, society of the young, we don't mind unless they we build them it's very difficult. And that again comes from the state is the main actor in the education system in most of these countries, particularly the developing countries, has to keep this in mind that this kind of education has to be a comprehensive one, not only if it is some kind of, you know, colonialism, lost of education, which only teaches you to be an engineer or a doctor or to be a bureaucrat, it has to be also how you sort of be responsible for the society and the lives of water.
00:43:13:13 - 00:43:35:06
Dr. Ashok Swain
And I think this is where we should concern. Of course, there have been we or but number of social civil society organization or the different private schools they can possibly. But there has to be strict instructions from some broad system that these are very important. Water is an important topic need to be discussed from the I mean the from the primary level to upward.
00:43:35:08 - 00:43:59:08
Dr. Ashok Swain
Unless that happens, I think that unless we put that in the students, my other kids lined that the watering is not anymore something they have been using traditionally or before. It can be used the same way because the water is becoming scarce, water is becoming polluted with some more demand. We need to rethink about how we use to think about the water.
00:43:59:13 - 00:44:34:03
Dr. Ashok Swain
And I think this is again coming back to the same kind of questions where how, who should really prioritize it. And I think it's up many countries have prioritized it. I that was a big mention that this country is not you don't need to but the countries that would need to they are not doing it and I think that that's the way of the problem lives and they to and I think the natural disaster I think that I do if I look at the question how because that brings out another aspects how though because the natural disasters becoming including due to climate change it's becoming much more yearly as well as intensive.
00:44:34:03 - 00:45:03:11
Dr. Ashok Swain
I come from a place where which always or what are you, the flood or the cyclone? We call it in India. So I have seen how that really destroys your water system and that's something else. I think that's something we need to realize that in the whole during the natural disasters time, I am a questioner was asking from the United States side and that that's again how you need to remain prepared for it, how long you need remain prepared for, how much water supply you need to keep.
00:45:03:11 - 00:45:24:05
Dr. Ashok Swain
Those are the practical questions, but they are something. But to put a specific reasons because of those kind of natural disasters, but then drought situation, that's a different thing. But so we can continue this discourse on it's a longer discussion. But in general I think the school level education on the water is extremely important and the country's budget should do it.
00:45:24:05 - 00:45:26:00
Dr. Ashok Swain
I'm not doing it.
00:45:26:02 - 00:45:41:21
Mr. Kyle King
Thank you for that. So, Dr. Taylor, we'll come over to you for the next question because you technology before, but do you think it's sort of a solution of wastewater management or water management solution to the problem? If developed countries transfer clean water technology to developing countries, should that technology transfer take place?
00:45:42:00 - 00:46:10:08
Dr. Roman Tandlich
Thank you. That's a really good point. Yes, it should. And to a large extent it does already take place. There's a lot of partnerships between what we call north and south or between, for example, Erasmus+ from the European Union, not making adverts for anything, but it facilitating mobility between a wide variety of researchers from the EU and countries outside the EU.
00:46:10:14 - 00:46:42:11
Dr. Roman Tandlich
South Africa is a good example. South American countries are good example. Arid parts of North Africa are also part of this. So the exchanges critical and it already is going on. There is also quite a bit of co-development, which means that the collaboration is often of going both ways. That bidirectional development of, for example, sensors that were mentioned earlier are being developed in collaboration between I know there are many South African universities doing it, many universities from the European Union.
00:46:42:13 - 00:47:16:15
Dr. Roman Tandlich
At the same time, you have the international funders such as the Mellon and Bill Gates Foundation that are stimulating quite a lot of research into on sustainable sanitation, sanitation that takes the human waste and actually turns it into products that can be used to uplift communities. So, for example, fertilizer, energy, source resources, things like that. And those kinds of grants are available to a wide range of researchers from both the developed and the developing world.
00:47:16:17 - 00:47:41:16
Dr. Roman Tandlich
And then I would maybe close it out with the following thing. We saw a very great deal of collaboration in the genomics sphere through the Food and Agriculture Organization for many years now, and genomic sequencing, for example. So looking at what are the genetic makeup of microorganisms, for example, has only been strengthened during COVID 19. There was a lot of sharing of genomic data.
00:47:41:16 - 00:48:03:05
Dr. Roman Tandlich
This is not related to this specific topic. I'm just saying that a lot of collaboration is opened up internationally. There's always need for more because of the climate changes created conditions that are changing rapidly and we need to the exchange of information must be ongoing exchange of technologies must be ongoing as well. And there is always more that we can do.
00:48:03:05 - 00:48:07:00
Dr. Roman Tandlich
But the exchange is going on to quite a large extent.
00:48:07:02 - 00:48:18:00
Mr. Kyle King
Thank you. Thank for that. That's a great answer. So the last question here and Dr. Soil, to come back to you, because it's another water related question, but should water be declared a social property by the United Nations?
00:48:18:04 - 00:48:36:17
Dr. Ashok Swain
Water has been I mean, by just declaring it doesn't make any sense. I mean, of course it makes some sense. I mean, but the question is, it is a socially property, whether the United Nations declared, is it or not? It's a property which goes beyond that, because it has been I mean, we must sell that become part of the human rights.
00:48:36:17 - 00:48:59:16
Dr. Ashok Swain
I mean, the drinking water and sanitation is not is a part of the human rights. And I think this is something that's very important. The water had it's is belongs to the society. It doesn't really belong to the any in a sense. It's a not it doesn't really go beyond the economic or political boundary. It must be kind of a possibility for everyone to receive it.
00:48:59:21 - 00:49:33:00
Dr. Ashok Swain
But I think we have also limitations. We have a limited water usage and how it limited water level in most the cases and our that there is a different way. Do we need to use that are some purpose on some people some economy when used more people some economies some society will even do less and how to differentiate about we need to have every individual must have some possibility of getting some amount of water, which has to be the human rights.
00:49:33:06 - 00:50:05:09
Dr. Ashok Swain
But saying that you need to run the economy, you need to run the for system, you need to run all the things which is is a part of the larger cycle demands. So I think it's to maintain a balance that how we fulfill the basic requirements. I think we go back to the past discussions which started that how we state ensure that every individual in the society has the basic amount of water available to lead a life and lead its economic growth in a manner which is acceptable.
00:50:05:09 - 00:50:26:01
Dr. Ashok Swain
Okay. And then the rest we can produce, we can manage all the way we think that the how the economic productivity of the people do what they want and what the challenges on we are doing that might be any good. Okay. So that is a no such. But everything has to be grow. It is somehow we need to realize that are complexities large.
00:50:26:06 - 00:50:38:06
Dr. Ashok Swain
But I think the most important thing is every individual has the basic right to have a basic minimum of water, which he or she needs for its survival. And well.
00:50:38:08 - 00:50:52:19
Mr. Kyle King
Thank you very much for that. And on that note, we'll go ahead and close out the session for today. Thank you very much for joining us and really appreciate your attendance. And thank you to our panelists for our wonderful insights and conversations today around the topics of food and water security. Thanks once again.
00:50:52:21 - 00:50:53:09
Dr. Roman Tandlich
Thank you.
